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Interview with Hard-Hitting Sports Commentator Dave Zirin
M. Junaid Alam with Dave Zirin
Dave Zirin is not your typical run-of-the-mill leftist. From the airwaves of Air America and the pages of The Nation, he's been taking a swing at sexism, racism, and nationalism within America's most prized arenas of entertainment, writing with wit and verve about major political issues through the spectrum of the sports world. I had a chance to talk to Dave about his new book, What's My Name Fool? Sports and Resistance in the United States, and some of the latest controversies to catch the interest of sports buffs and political activists alike.
Alam:
First, I want to thank you for doing this interview with Left Hook, Dave.
I have to admit that when I first saw your book, "What's My Name, Fool? Sports and Resistance in the United States ," I was more than a little surprised. Knowing the general consensus is that lefties are either the ones who got beat up by the sports kids back in high school or simply made for pretty poor athletes, I said to myself, "There's someone out there descrying a radical political angle from American sports today?" So what first turned you on to the topics of sports and covering it from a leftist angle?
Zirin:
First and foremost, thanks to Left Hook for doing this interview. LH has been a tremendously important addition to the left in this country.
But enough kissy face. For me, this book started germinating in high school. Operation Desert Storm, and the L.A. Riots burned across my TV screen. As the world seemed to turn upside down, sports began to seem meaningless at best, and at worst, against any concept of social justice. This became jarringly clear during the 1991 Gulf War when I saw "my team's" mascot thrash a person in an Arab suit at half court while the jumbo-tron encouraged chants of U-S-A. Limping away from the arena, I concluded, that sports were part of the problem, and cheering blindly was like going to see 'Rambo' to admire the special effects while ignoring Stallone's slaughter of Vietnamese villagers.
Then in 1996, a basketball player named Mahmoud Abdul Rauf refused to stand for the National Anthem. Rauf believed the flag to be "a symbol of oppression and tyranny," and was willing to suffer the consequences. His courage was stunning, but even more shocking was the howling cries for his head. When Rauf was suspended, some news reports resembled lynch mobs. But others likened him to Muhammad Ali, whose title was stripped for being a draft resistor during the Viet Nam war. This was a history I barely knew. As Rauf began to buckle under the tremendous pressure of right wing bombast, it became clear that our side needed a history of the resistance in US pro sports.
Alam:
In the book, you make a revealing point about the NBA debacle in Detroit last season, in which a brawl involving fans and players was frequently referred as a "riot" and a couple players received severe punishments from the league - you pointed out the vast majority of fans were white and from the suburbs, and the players were mostly black and from the city. How much do you think the element of racial fear played into what happened that night?
Zirin:
I don't know if I would call it "fear" but there are significant racial tensions between the "lower bowl" NBA fans
(people in the expensive corporate seats) and players. It's a white wealthy audience watching wealthy black players - albeit players most of whom grew up poor. This uneasy dynamic of race and class was all over the tensions that exploded in Auburn Hills. One player said to me that playing in an NBA arena made him feel like a "monkey in a cage." That's not going anywhere.
Alam:
Do you think, on a broader level, the whole phenomenon of mostly white working-class crowds watching well-paid and disproportionately minority athletes perform in front of them - as in baseball, for instance - creates a kind of slice of inverse reality that feeds into right-wing resentment and victim mentality about Civil Rights gains?
Zirin:
I honestly don't think that it's that cut and dried. Many white working class kids have Allen Iverson posters in their bedrooms. At Baltimore Ravens football games, the most popular jersey, emblazoned on many a Caucasian fan's body is Ray Lewis who was accused of double homicide a couple of years back. I also think we have to careful about class distinctions at pro sporting events. At the Pistons/Pacers game for example it's wasn't working class people in the executive lower bowl. I certainly believe that sports radio can feed such resentments but I also believe that sports can have the c apacity to break down racial barriers as well. I try to talk about such examples both historically and currently in What's My Name, Fool.
Alam:
One of the things you exquisitely capture in your book is the role that resistance in sports played in the general movements of the 60s and 70s against racism and sexism, but in our era the issues are more complex and the contrasts less spectacular than black fists raised against the backdrop of Olympic skies. Do you sometimes find it hard to tease out the undercurrents of major political and social issues in sports today?
Zirin:
Actually I would love it if some Olympic athletes had the gumption and political confidence to do exactly what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did lo those many years ago. I think if Hurricane Katrina and it's aftermath has taught us anything, it's that these issues are far less complicated than we think. Institutionalized racism and poverty are alive and well in the United States and statistically are getting worse. The war in Iraq resembled the Vietnam quagmire every day. Just like in the 1960s, we need to build a mass movement against racism and war - and to see athletes amplify that movement on their hyper-exalted, hyper-commercialized platforms would be exquisitely welcome. I think a middle aged African-American woman at a recnt demonstration got this right perfectly when she held up a sign that read, "No Iraqi Ever Left Me TO Die On a Roof!" This is an echo of the famous line attributed to Muhammad Ali that "No Vietnamese ever called me nigger." The more things change...
Alam:
A topic you cover in your book, and one which you continue to discuss in your recent articles, is the controversy and demonization surrounding Barry Bonds and possible steroids use. You're one of the few, if not the only, public voices who's taken a pretty strong defense of Bonds as the media descends on him - why is that? Does the steroids issue go beyond Bonds, and even players who've been found to be using steroids?
Zirin:
I think there is tremendous hypocrisy and no small measure of racism in how Barry Bonds is torn apart like anabolic carrion by the media. I happen to love bonds precisely because he is so unlovable. He possesses more than intergalactic talent. He is one of a select few modern athletes with a fearless comfort telling uncomfortable truths. He is the Sean Penn of Major League Baseball, a Sean Penn in a Tom Hanks world. I love what he said recently - that congress should be more concerned with helping hurricane Katrina victims than investigating steroid use. Some sports writers hate that, they say he is ducking the question, but I think he is getting the question exactly right.
Alam:
If you would just indulge me in a little speculation here - there seems to be in American society a bifurcation in public fascination with sports and actual participation in sports. That is, we are overawed to see athletes performing superhuman feats, but then you we can turn on sports talk radio and hear an ocean of hate and resentment against certain players for racial or politically-motivated reasons, voiced by people who just accumulate mass in their ass from their armchairs. Do you think it would be desirable if America focused more on participation and involvement in sports, and less on the glitz, glamor, and gargantuan feats of high-played players?
Zirin:
Absolutely I believe that would be preferable! The modern market society is the first to create such a ridiculous and artificial separation between spectator and participant. I think the sports radio phenomenon that you reference is important as well. Sports radio is in one way exactly what you describe. In another way, it's the last refuge of the polemicist. The last place for people of differing opinions to have principled arguments (outside academia, certainly) and have it be socially acceptable. I am not saying [hate and resentment is] a good thing. Obviously, I don't believe it is. But when sports and politics cross swords, it's amazing how political and exciting these debates can become, often over the objections of the sports radio hosts themselves.
Alam:
Finally, one trend you allude to in the beginning of your book is the left's aversion to sports-related issues -there's a general sense of, "Well, why should I side with million-dollar-player unions versus billion-dollar owners?" What openings for progress and struggle within sports - or among avid sports fans - do you think leftists should try to attune themselves towards and reach out to?
Zirin:
The answer to this question starts with math (not one of my best subjects). 200 million people in this country watch sports. A recent poll showed that 67% of the US believes that "we are moving in the wrong direction." most of this unease is as a result of the war in Iraq and Hurricane Katrina. Given these numbers, it stands to reason that a tremendous mass of sports fans are silently repelled by the endless jingoism, sexism, corporate free-for-all and racism in sports. Therefore any opportunity we can take to - as sports fans - point out that these politics have no place in sports, is an important act.
Also there are political movements out there - like the fight against publicly funded stadiums, the fight to make sure Title IX is not overturned, the fight to finally get Native American mascots thrown into the dustbin of history - that we should engage in with gusto. Let's take the Vince Lombardi quote, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing" and apply it to our struggle for a better world. Batter up.
If you found this piece useful, please keep us alive by making a donation to our second anniversary fund drive .
Dave Zirin maintains a website, Edge of Sports, at www.edgeofsports.com.
M. Junaid Alam, 22, is co-editor of the online leftist youth journal Left Hook (http://www.lefthook.org). He can be reached at alam@lefthook.org.
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